HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XIV, Issue 828, 17 October 1860, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, August 16,18G0

•tfr Stavfoiu), before the house proceeded to the iJsiness of the day, wished to say a few words with fprencc to a statement which ho was reported to Mvc nm\c oa a Previous °«casso»- He referred to 1: statement as to the instructions given to Colonel ftiltl The report was substantially correct as far <, it went, but omitted tho very important words "'for' a time," which ho had repeated twice. Tho impression conveyed to the country might conse--I'iiUv l>e that tlic restrictions against attacking Wi'llwi" King on his own ground were unlimited. Tt would be both inconvenient and improper during the wm to state what instructions had been given. Rut in {llis cftse re l' ort. s 'iav»'S already been circuMcd it might be satisfactory to tlie house if he stated the circumstances which led to this instructhn now referred to. The intention of the Governnent from the first was not to attack William TCinir unless obliged in consequence of King's own ronduct to repel his armed interference. Further, « deputation of Ngatiruanui had gone to Waikato to solicit support from tho Waikato natives, and had been accompanied back to Taranaki by an escort from Wnikato. It appeared to his Excellency and his advisers that the war might spread into other districts than that in which it had arisen, if any 'vement WC re to take place with King while the Waikatos who had returned with the Ngatiruanuis were staying with him. They had, therefore, thought it advisable that no offensive operation should be undertaken against the pas in which the Waikatos were staying, lest they might be drawn in to fight, and then induce their relatives and connexions to come and join them. Whilst at Taranaki, at the time, this opinion had been expressed to him by persons able to'form a judgment on the matter. It was further supposed not to be improbable that inaction and privations would prevent the Waikatos from remaining there very long, and that with no present source of excitement itwas even possible that they would look back on the old relations between Ngatiawa and the Waikato, which might have the effect of producing a schism between those who were moral enemies in past days. Those considerations were of such weight that his Excellency had restricted offensive measures for a time, so that the Waikatos might have an opportunity of returning back to their own district. In the event of Ivfng assuming the offensive, Colonel Gold was expressly enjoined to inflict a severe chastisement on Jiim. With the sole exception to which he had referred, the instructions to the commanding officer had neither tied his hands, or crippled his actions, or done more than to point out the particular hapus which deserved chastisement. In conclusion, he would state that the restriction had been for some time entirely removed, and the officer in command was now left to his own discretion.

Mr. Carter asked how long it had been so?

Mr. Stafford replied that on the 20th April instructions were given not to go north of the Waitara. This was in consequence of the request to that effect of some influential YVaikato Chiefs. The further instructions just referred to were dated on the 17th Hay, and virtually removed by the occurrences which led to the action of the 27th June.

Mr. Carter —Then the hon. gentleman can't tell us how many weeks the restriction remained?

Mr. Stafford thought that would not be a very difficult problem for the lion, member to work out himself. Erom the 17th May to the 27th June appeared to him something like six weeks. am. Stafford's resolution on the war at TARANAKI. Mr. Stafford: Sir, in moving the resolution of which I have given notice, I shall not trespass on the time of the house, as it is not my intention, or desire, to introduce any fresh debateable matter with reference to the questions embraced by the resolution, which have been so frequently the subject of debate since the commencement of the session. The resolution which I am about to move merely re-affirms the opinions expressed in the address in reply to his Excellency's speech in opening tin's session; and it would have been superfluous and unnecessary, under other circumstances, to have brought the subject again before the house, had it not been for the very sudden and unexpected manner in which the debate on the address had been concluded. It had, however; occurred more than once since the address had been carried, that some hon. members had declared that they did not conceive themselves to be bound by, its terms, though it had been carried without a dissentient voice, because no debate on it had taken place. Sir, it appears to me to be both necessary and proper that on such an important question the members of this house should have an opportunity of expressing their opinions unmistakeably. It is due to the Government, and it is due to the country, that the representatives of the people of the colony should declare their opinions as to the justice and necessity of the course taken by the Government. This is especially necessary on the eve of a general election, to enable the country to determine in what manner and by whom it should be represented; and to declare whether it believed the present war to be a just one, I believe the course lain now taking to be the right one, as 1 know it to be. the open and straightforward one. I therefore move,—" That in the opinion of this house, the interference of Wiremu, Kingi at Waitara, and his resort to force to prevent the survey of land there, rendered the measures adopted by his Excellency the Governor indispensable for the maintenance of her Majesty's sovereignty; and that the welfare of both races of her Majesty's subjects peremptorily requires a vigorous prosecution of the war to a successful termination."

Mr. Brandon freely assented to the latter part of the resolution. Whether the origin of the war were just or unjust he deemed it necessary for the welfare of both races that the war should be prosecuted to a successful termination ; that peace could not be made or any negotiation for a cessation of hostilities entertained, until William King laid down his arms; until it had been made manifest to the natives that further fighting was useless and that the pakehas would be the conquerors. But he disagreed entirely with the former part, viz., " That the interference of William King at Waitara and his resort to force to prevent the survey of the land there, rendered the measures adopted by his Excellency tlier Governor indispensable for the due maintenance of Her Majesty's sovereignty." He could not agree with that proposition, and laid the entire responsibility of the war and present state of the country on the shoulders of the Governor and his' ministers. They were aware of the disaffection which had long prevailed throughout a large portion of this island; they had selected the occasion for asserting the sovereignty of the Queen, and as he had observed on a former occasion, most unhappily did they choose their issue when they made the purchase of a paltry piece of land the occasion of hostilities —a purchase in which the Queen was the party to derive the benefit. Why had they not selected some occasion to uphold law and order among the natives? Had they done that, nine-tenths of the natives who were now in arms against the Queen's troops would have rallied round the Governor and supported them. He could hut attribute the present disastrous state of affairs solely to the neglect and incapacity of the ministry. It was true the war was an imperial question, as was also the conduct of it; and under the present relations "between the Governor and his advisers with respect to native affairs, the colonists could not be made responsible for it.

Mr. Carleton could not allow the debate to stop there. The lion, member at the head of the Government had stated that the reason for moving this resolution was that, in consequence of the collapse of the debate on the address in reply to the Governor's speech, the Government had not felt themselves in the position they ought to be towards this House. In that he fully agreed with them. But the question was whether there were not the same objections existing in that motion which existed from the first with regard to the address ? He meant to say, and had stated it from the first, that the address was far too stringent and restricted to have been submitted to that house in the shape it was. There might be

many members who would object to tho present • motion without wishing to bo in n position of hostility to tho Government. The colony being in a stttteof great difficulty, itwas thoirduty to strengthen the-, hands of the Governor ; but they ought not to be called upon to put themselves in opposition to the Government, nor yet to swallow that which their own consciences would not permit. Though ho disagreed with the first part of the resolution, ho could agree with the second. For though ho had always objected to tho war, there was no choice now but to go on. As to the original proceedings of Ministers he had suspended his judgment ; but if they had arrived at the right course at last, they blundered upon it. Still there was nothing for it now but to go on with the war vigorously : all former considerations were annulled by William King's being now in arms against the Queen. In his (Mr. C's) opinion there were very good grounds for supposing that, when war was commenced, W. King was not a rebel in law, and it possibly even remained a question whether he were in arms against the Queen now. In the well-known case of Frost, it was, he believed, held that if the evidence had not broken down, he would have been indictable for murder, but not for rebellion against the Queen. There were words in that motion which he could not vote for and would not: those words were, " the interference of Wiremu Kingi at Waitara and his resort to force, to prevent the survey of land there, rendered the measures adopted by His Excellency the Governor indispensible for the due" maintenance of Her Majesty's sovereignty." All the evidence adduced in that house had only weakened his belief in the war being indispensable. The Government only wanted either to force members into open opposition, or to affirm what they could not conscientiously. He had waited to see if any member else would move an amendment, but none having done so, he must do it himself. He moved that the words from " the" in the first line to " the" in the 4th line be omitted. It would then read that, " in the opinion of this house, the welfare of both races of Her Majesty's subjects peremptorily requires a vigorous prosecution of the war to a successful termination." Mr. Daldy seconded the motion. Mr. Brown thought the house should not have been called upon in one resolution to express an opinion on two different subjects, for he could agree with the latter part, but not with the former. Mr. Moorhotjse said he should vote for the original motion. He did so because he believed ministers, under the circumstances, were justified in taking in an abridged form the gross result of what had fallen from lion, members during a long and wearisome debate, namely, a substantial approval of their conduct. After a careful reading of the papers furnished to.the house, and after weighing all that had been said on all sides, he was of opinion that Wiremu Kingi had openly and deliberately challenged the Crown to fight upon what (in his opinion) was another man's land. It had been said that previously -to the proclamtion of martial law no murder or other grave crime had been committed by King, and that consequently there could have been no intention on the part of King to invite a war, but the house knew well enough that King had given notice, and in unmistakeable terms, that he would not allow her Majesty's officers to proceed with a survey directed by the Governor, who claimed possession by virtue of open purchase. King had said in effect, " Come upon this land at your peril. To be sure the land is not mine, but I shall not allow the Queen to possess it." Such a defiance was certainly, in his opinion, as impudent a challenge to fight as could possibly be imagined, if hon. members were inquiring for a just casus belli. Was not such a challenge sufficient, taken together with Wiremu Kingi's well-known arming of his followers, to call for immediate measures in vindication of the supremacy of the Crown? The arming of King's people was conclusive evidence that they were serious, in preparing for a war. How could the Governor refuse such a challenge? Why he should have regarded submission under the circumstances as the meanest poltroonery—as the most suicida.l weakness. There had been a great deal of unnecessary debating about Taylor's title. Every attempt had been made through a most dreary and wearisome debate (which had frequently driven him out of the house, in search of refreshment and a brief respite, from the terrible prosiness of hon. members' harangues), to prove King's title to the land. It was evident that King had no title whatever to the land in question. He was, therefore, constrained to admit that the war was both just and highly necessary ; that if his Excellency the Governor had been advised by ministers to the course he had pursued, he had been well advised. He adhered to the opinion he had expressed in the earlier part of this series of debates, and also wished to record his cordial approval of what ministers had done. Everyone declared that it was necessary to prosecute the war. Then why did lion, members damage its progress by crying out the war is unjust ? He could scarcely understand how they could with adecent countenance support an unjust war, and at the same time publish their belief in its injustice. It was, in his opinion, divesting the war of what was absolutely necessary to give war credit in the eyes of the world. The Resolution informed him the war was a just war, and necessary. The necessity of the war was affirmed by all. Then why did some hon. members continue to urge against all proof to the contrary that the war was unjust. He believed the war was justly provoked, and that its firm prosecution was necessary for the welfare of both races. It was high time that the question of Her Majesty's supremacy should be set at rest. The hon. member for the Bay had stated that Wiremu Kingi was justified in resisting the survey by a moderate application of force. Wiremu Kingi knew very well he had no such right, and had never made any appeal to any court of enquiry for adjudication of his claim, but rested his claim solely upon the strength of his arm. He trusted they should have very little more discussion on the matter. He hoped it would now be dropped. He believed ministers were quite justified in putting the question embodied in the resolution pointedly to the house. It was essential to the dignity of the country. If they doubted the state of opinion in the house after all the recent debating, they were certainly bound at once to come down and ascertain oh what ground they did stand. Some hon. members would well understand the difficulties surrounding an Executive during the present critical war period. It should be remembered that it did not at all assist the interests of'the country, their telling all they knew of everything they handled. It was their constitutional duty to be solely ac~ quainted with many facts which it would be moral treason to publish. He was satisfied that the best course had been taken. It had been said that war might have been delayed. It certainly might have been. But at what expenses? Delayed, perhaps, for one, two, or even four years. But those evils, only curable by the sword, would have become greater with the delay. If, as it was alleged, we were unable to compel respect for our laws now, what would be our chance after a perfect organisation of the rebels? However dreadful it might be to come to the conclusion that war involving the awful sacrifice of human life was necessary, yet he was bound to express a hope that the war would go on with vigour; that there would be no nervous maudlin trifling. Let it be finished. And then let us set about extending the civil privileges of the natives. Meanwhile, ministers should lose no time in issuing a manifesto to the native race; shadowing forth the coming order of things. In short giving them a serious promise of perfect equality with Europeans. Mr. Dillon Bell: I speak under so great a sense of the responsibility that weighs upon us in giving a vote on the question before the committee, that if in the observations I shall feel it my duty to make, I should not be able to avoid commenting in strong terms on the course which hon.. members have thought right to take in this debate, I must hope they will receive those observations without offence. It was certainly with great surprise that I heard the amendment proposed by the hon. gentleman the member for the Bay. I can understand that the hon. member the Superintendent of Wellington, who in his eloquent address the other day denounced this war as unholy and unjust, and who condemned from beginning to end the proceedings of the Governor at Waitara, should be prepared to give his vote against the resolu-

tion of the lion, gentleman at the head of the Government: I can understand that he, conscientiously believing thut tho war is baaed upon an act of spoliation and a violation of tho treaty of Waitangi, should disapprove alike of the proposition that the Governor was justified in opposing by lorco the resort to arms by William King, and of the proposition that the welfare of both races requires a vigorous prosecution of the war. His conduct is at least open and consistent. But I confess that; lam at a loss to understand how the lion, member for the Bay can justify it to himself to divide those propositions as he asks us to do, and affirm the one before he has made up his mind upon the other. He tells us that he has very grave doubts whether there were just grounds for taking up arms,'but that he is nevertheless prepared cordially to concur in affirming the necessity of carrying on the war: he has no difficulty in making up his mind to go on''sacrificing life, but "suspends his judgment" as to whether it be not in ah unjust cause. Sir, I deny that there exists a necessity to prosecute the war if it was unrighteous in its inception: on the contrary, if we are fighting only for outrage and oppression, the highest necessity exists for putting an immediate termination to it. It is an evasion of a most solemn duty to put aside the question whether our cause be just ; it is a cruel and remorseless thing to send men to' their death while we are quibbling and doubting and hesitating upon a point of title ; I say let us be sure we are fighting justly, or for heaven's sake let us put an end to it; and for my part I will wash my hands of the guilt of being accessory to the further shedding of blood, with any doubt upon my mind as to the justice with which the first shot was fired. (Cheers.) Hon. gentlemen speak of disgrace in laying down our arms ; but what disgrace can compare with the humiliation, aye the crime, of a great and powerful nation compelling by force of arms, a few wretched tribes to submit to an acknowledged violation of the very rights she had guaranteed to them by treaty ? I pray, then, hon. members to mate up their minds whether such a violation has been committed or not. It is that question which is put to us in the resolution, and the amendment is the most transparent part of it. The war does not rest and never rested on the question of Teira's title. I told you the other night, that I for one thought it extremely probable we should find some of those now in arms against us could show a good title to some of Teira's block, and especially the Fmtukakariki; I repeat it now • and all the evidence which has been given by Archdeacon Hadfield and Mr. McLean at the bar of this house, and all the evidence you will ever get besides has left and will leave the matter exactly where it was, namely that Teira had some land at Waitara in the block which he has sold, and that it is very likely others may prove they have some there too. Well, what of that;! When they choose tocomeinas peaceful citizens we will hear their claims, and by all means let us declare that we will not deprive them against their free consent of an acre, no not of a single foot, of any land which they may prove to be theirs. The Governor's declaration at the foot of the deed secured them from the first, and we can only repeat the same assurance here as representatives of the Maori people no less than of the English. But does the hon. member for the Bay mean that because they may have a right to the land, Wiremu Kingi has a right to levy war against the Queen ? He tells us he suspends his judgment; I want to know when he will make up his mind ? [Mr. Carleton : when there has been an enquiry.] Well, but what enquiry ? Have you any doubt as to the fact of the war pahs being built upon the land, as to the war dances, as to Wiremu Kingi's refusal of the safe-conduct ? These are what the war must be tried by, not the validity or invalidity of Teira's title. Remember, the resolution does not raise the question of the policy of the war. We are only now doing again what we did in our barren debate of the other night, discussing the question of its justice ; we are called upon to express the opinion of the country in the legitimate form of a vote of this house, and it is of the highest importance that we should trace the war to its true causes, and reject whatever false issue is suggested to evade an opinion upon them. If, we cahjSarrive at the conclusion that the war was not undertaken by the 'Governor to seize unjustly upon #ny man's land, but that it resulted from the attitude assumed by Wiremu Kingi, we ought not to shrink from the sacrifice of private opinion on many points where our judgment might not approve the wisdom of the original proceedings out of which we have drifted into this conflict of race. Sir, I among others have had to make and am still ready to make such sacrifices. But they would never have been'required of any one if the military operations had been attended with success. Nothwithstanding the disapprobation with which hon. members oppdsite.received a similar expression from me the other night, I remain convinced that we should never have heard of all this outburst of newborn sympathy for "the poor oppressed natives," if what every one expected had happened, and Wiremu Kingi had submitted to the demonstration of force by the Governor. We should have heard nothing of these doubts or. the part of the people who take the moment of public danger to change their minds, but who, would have been among the first to say if all had,gone well that an immense service had been rendered to the country and most of all to the natives themselves, by the Governor's original proceedings of March, 1859. For five years these Ngatiawa chiefs had been slaying each other in disputes about theft*; title to land, till the blood of murdered men cried to heaven against the rulers who continued to permit such crimes. The Queen's sovereignty was sunk beneath contempt; no man might walk abroad in safety, or claim protection against those who secretly sought his life : the punishment of death was pronounced against any chief who should presume to sell his own land: it was inflicted with merciless ferocity in the shining light of day under the very guns of the Queen's troops, and in the sight of peaceful settlers. A league of minor chiefs of a conquered and broken tribe claimed to usurp the authority of law, and substitute for English rule a Maori reign of terror j this Wiremu Kingi, held up to us as a model of Christian virtue, at one time threatened (I refer to a public and official statement which has never, so far as I know, been contradicted) to exterminate every man, woman, and child in a pah he was beseiging; and on another occasion the menace to roast Iliaia alive if he were caught, so fired the settlers out of the bonds of an enforced neutrality, that a generous band of men bound themselves at all risks to rescue and bring him in. I ask you, which of us will be rash enough to say that the Governor was not justified in trying to put an end to such fearful 'evils? (Or rather let me ask whether the dishonour they had brought upon our name had not been endured too long? Do you mean even now to let the natives kill each other to decide their disputes about land ? [Mr. Carleton : No; but do not take their land.] Well, but you must settle their disputes for them if you will not let them do it in their own way. [Mr. Carleton: In other words, you are to eat the oyster and give them the shell.] No ; and the imputation of such a motive for this war is what 1 most complain of. No Government that has ever existed here was actuated by such a motive; the motive in this case was to put an end to inhuman warfare, and I repeat that if it had succeeded you would have said the Governor had made a noble stand. Hon. members tell me of the rights guaranteed by the Treaty of Waitangi; I remind them in reply that with these rights came duties, duties which Wiremu Kingi and his people had shown themselves determined never to fulfil. I am sick of being told that they may claim the treaty right of holding land, and the savage right of committing murder too. lam sick of being told that we must turn a deaf ear to supplications for help from women and children at the last gasp in Karaka pah, but that when it is Wiremu Kingi who speaks we are bound to listen. Listen? why we offered to listen.. How many times has it to be repeated that before a shot was fired the Governor offered him an opportunity in person to bring forward his claims, and that he rejected it? I say it is the merest pretence to plead the proclamation as an excuse for W. King rejecting the Governor's safe conduct. What! Is the Queen's Governor to go down in person, and condescend to offer a safe conduct under his own hand, only to see his offer rejected with contumacious insolence? No man shall make me believe for a moment that there is a grain of common justice or common sense in

that. It would have been unjustifiable in a great chief of one of the unconquored tribes; it was outrageous in a petty chief of one of the families of the broken and scattered Atiawa. But the pretence is \*rn-° nly a! )surd' ifc is fttlse- All °f us who knew William King when he was in arms on our side during tho war of 1847, are assured that he is far too well aware of what martial law is (for it was in force in his own district for a long period of time) ever to set up such a plea himself: nor is there a tittle of evidence that he ever did set it up. Now let me ask hon. members opposite one question. Will any man in his senses tell me he really believes that it Win, King had not rejected that safe conduct, if he had not refused to come to the Governor when ho was mercifully summoned to do so in February, 18G0, a single drop of blood would have been shed in this quarrel ? (Cheers). Is there any one here pretending to the smallest acquaintance with native affairs who will venture to say, that if King had come, and said to the Governor, " I claim a proprietary right to, some of this land, you are in error in assuming that, my opposition is based only on the land-league, we resist the survey because we will not suffer our own pieces of land to be taken, enquire further into our title," all further action would have instantly been suspended? Why, any one who says this must surely be afflicted with the mania whereof we have seen instances, the madness of supposing that the Governor went down to Taranaki in 1860 with a foregone determination to exterminate the Maori race. But when W. King rejected the safe conduct, when he built the war pahs, and challenged us by war dances, when he flew his fighting flag, was he not in insurrection against the Queen, and if sd.do you mean to say the Governor was then to yield? Because that is coming to the point which hon. gentlemen opposite, and specially I regret to say the hon. member for the Bay, desire by this amendment altogether to evade. I have heard an absolutely insane argument, that Wiremu Kingi was only building these armed pahs on his own land, and that he had a right to do it. Yes ; a right to build war pahs ; a right to commit murder; a right to roast men alive ; a right to butcher women and children ; a right to levy war against the Queen ! Why, that right is the very question at issue ; it was to denounce the assumption of it that the Governor made his declarations of 1859, it was to crush its enforcement by the tomahawk that the Governor is engaged in this war. The representative of the Queen declared that the assumption of this right should be tolerated no more in the Atiawa country ; Wi Kingi virtually declared that he should still exercise it at his good pleasure : which of them was to give way ? I want you to answer this question fairly. Am Ito understand that when the pah was built, the hon. gentleman the member for the Bay would have advised the Governor to yield the ground, to withdraw his troops and to return to Auckland like a lashed hound ? He does not advise our laying down our arms now, would he have advised it then? (Cheers.) If he would not, if no one with any patriotic feeling would then he must join with me in saying that on the head of Wiremu Kingi lies all the guilt and all the blood of those who have since fallen and shall yet fall in this quarrel.

Dr. FkatherstOit: Sir, I would not have taken part in the debate, had my hon. friend the member' for Wallace not so directly appealed to me, nay challenged me, to express my opinion as to the motion before the house. I must say that the Government has exercised a wise discretion in withdrawing their first proposal, and substituting for it the present resolntion; for it could scarcely be expected, after the disclosures that have taken place in recent debates—more especially after the admissions made by Mr. McLean in his evidence the other evening, that this house would either affirm the justice of the war, or declare their approval of the proceedings which have led to it. For my own part, sir, lam glad of the opportunity of declaring, that whatever doubts previously existed in my mind as to the gross injustice of the war —as to the fact that a flagrant wrong had been committed, have been entirely removed by the inquiry that has taken place ; however one-sided and partial the inquiry has been. I am also glad to express my conviction that his Excellency has been more sinned against than sinning, in this matter, for he has evidently been most grossly deceived by those upon whose information and trustworthiness he had a perfect right to reply. It appears to me as clear as noon-day, that this war is to be attributed to an undue pressure having been brought to bear upon his Excellency in order to force him to acquire possession of Waitara," no matter by what means, or at what sacrifices—to the incompetently of the District Commissioner to whom so delicate a negotiation was entrusted—and to a sinister influence exercised at the board of the Evecntive Council. At the same time lam not prepared to relieve his Excellency from the responsibility of this war; on the contrary, I hold him solely responsible for it: the war is an Imperial war, in which the colony has not been permitted to take voice—and therefore it behoves this house to take care that they do not by any resolution they may pass implicate the colony in it, or make it responsible either for the expenses or consequences—(Hear). With respect to the resolution before the house, in which the Government is urged to prosecute the war with vigour; I have in listening to hon. members who have spoken in support of it, been forcibly reminded of a saying of a great French writer—that "passion makes us feel, but never makes us see." If any evidence were required of the truth of that remark, it will he found in the present discussion, for every argument in favour of the war has been dictated by passion rather than by reason ; every appeal that has been made has been to our feelings and sympathies rather than to our cool and sober judgment. I trust, however, that this house will recognise that the questions involved in the present resolution are of far too grave a nature to be decided by our feelings and sympathies—for on our decision will probably depend, I do not say the progress, but the very existence of thi« colony—on the determination at which we may arrive will hinge the future relations between the two* races, and whether the present war shall become a war of races, ending no doubt ultimately in the subjugation and extermination of the natives, but entailing during that process the utter destruction of the property, if not the sacrifice of the lives of the whole body of the present settlers in this island. Sir, it is of course easy for this house to urge the Government to a vigorous prosecution of the war ; to pledge ourselves to give them all the support in> our power; to declare that the supremacy of the Crown must be vindicated and maintained, no matter at what cost; all this sounds very patriotic, and would undoubtedly, as hinted by the Member at the head of the Government, tell well if spoken from the hustings to the people while they were in a paroxysm of war fever; but Sir, I hope that no member of this house will be deterred by nny such electioneering cry from boldly expressing his opinion and faithfully discharging his duty. (Hear.) I for one do not hesitate to say that before urging the Government to prosecute the war with vigour, before pledging ourselves! to a blind and unlimited support, especially before attempting to inflame the passion*, and to array race against race, it is incumbent upon us, whatever opinion we may entertain as to the justice of the war, calmly to consider the sacrifices it will entail, and to form some estimate of its probable results. I believe, Sir, that there is not a single Member who is not beginning to have a perception of the true character of the. struggle. I believe that there are some few of us who not only discern the dimension* the war, if prolonged, Will shortly assume, but who despair of bringing it—l do not nay to a satisfactory, but to any termination at all, as long ag those who have no wantonly, no recklessly provoked it, remain at the head of affairs. I further believe, that a great change in regard to it has come over the public mind, that a reaction has already taken place, a reaction that will to on increasing day by day, and that before long deep and bitter denunciations will be hurled by an indignant peoplb at those who have so rashly plunged the colony into such an unjust war—(Hear). I certainly, sir, would like to be.informed what hon. members mean by a vigorous prosecution of the war ? What prospect there is, not of carrying on the war. with success, but of avoiding grave and fatal disasters. When we consider, sir, that his Excellency has himself admitted that in tho war in the north (I may say the same of the wnrs in the south) the natives were always inferior in number to our troops, and yet that they wore never defeated—that, in fact, in every encounter which we have had with the natives, whether at the Wairan, at Kororareka, at Okuhau, at Kuapekapeka, at Wanganui, or the gallant actions at Wairekaaud Pukctukauere, the English have never been victorious —that in all those engagements the natives have remained masters of the field, in many instances repulsing tho troops with great loss ; when I say, with superior numbers, aud with all the.improved appliances of war, we have always come off second best, and been glad to make peace whenever the natives were willing to grant it, I ask what prospect is there of our waging with success the war in which we are now engaged ? In former wars the large majority of tho natives recognised that justice was on the side of the Government, and therefore either held aloof, or renderod powerful assistance. But in the present war, tho sympathies of the whoie race are with W. King. The " new policy" openly avowed by tho Govornor and his Ministers is regarded by the natives as an infringement of the rights so solemnly guaranteed to them by the Treaty of Waitangi, and large numbers from almost every tribe are daily Hocking to W. King's standard. Lot us not forgot that every engagement embroils us with fresh tribes—that tho greater the (daughter, the greater tho number of natives wo shall find arrayed against us in tho subsequent eucounters. But, sir, look at what has taken place at Taranaki, and the position in which we now are there—and then say what you moan by a vigorous prosecution of the war. You have, I bejievo, between 2500 and 3000 men under arms there, and yet you have beon unable to prevent the destruction of the guttlers'homesteads within range, of the guvs. Tho futility of bombarding pahs which can bo rebuilt in the course of a few hours has been so amply demonstrated, that his Excellency regards it simply as-a waste of powder and shot—and the troops are at this moment virtually besieged. If then, with 3000 men, you have been unablo to prevent tho complete destruction of tho provincb of Taranaki; if you have been unable to do moro than hold tho town of New Plymouth, or rather that portion of it which Hag been intrenched—what do

you moan, I again ask, by a prosecution of the war ?' If with 3000 inon it,is doubtful whothor your position at Taranaki will bo much longer tunable, how many mnn would you require, in tho cvoat of tlio war becoming general, to protect the other settlements in thin island? Ask any military man, and I venturu to Buy that ho will toll' you that' 10,000 men would not protect tho towns of Auckland, Wellington, Wanganai, and Napier; that 20,000, aye, or 30,000 won,' would Apt enable you to prevent tho uttsr destruction of all the property, and the Hiicrificc of the liven of tho settlers in tho Province* of Auckland, Wellington, and Huwkes day; and His Excellency himself has expressed his doubts whether with less than 5000 men we can hold possession of this island. What chance, then, have we of success in such a conflict? What is tho meaning of a vigoroun prosecution of tho war? We aro told, indeed, that large remforcomonts aro expected ; that His Excellency, after haying first talked of a block house at Waitara and twenty men tv being sulllciont, has asked for 2000, then 3000, and lastly 5000 men. Even if His Excellency got them, could yon do more than hold a few military posts? But does any Member seriously believe that the Home Government will send anything like the number of men His Excellency has asked for, if indeod they send any reinforcements at all? I have myself little doubt ao to what the answer of the Home Government will be, when they become acquainted with the origin of the war. Sir, when the Directors of the New Zealand Company suggested to Lord Stanley that the treaty of Waitangi was a praiseworthy device for amusing and pacifying savages hi* lordship replied, " That he would not permit that any party or any Government acting in the name of Her Majesty, could contract a legal, moral, or honorary obligation to despoil other* of their lawful or equitable rights." Sir, I venture to predict that when Her Majesty's Government learn the facti of the present case, when they learn that the war originated in a grudge entertained by Teira against his chief; that because a native girl jilted Teira's brother, and married Wi Kingi'i. ion, Teira swore that he would have his revenge; that knowing that Wi King! bad given a solemn pledge to his father not to tell Waitara, but to keep it for an inheritance for the Ngatiawai, Teira resolved to satisfy his revenge by selling Waitara to the Government; when they know that of the 600 acres offered by Teira and purclm.ed by the Governraout, only a .mail portiom really belonged to Teira, that the greatest portion is owned by natives who have either protested against the sale or have never been consulted in the matter, that no investigation worthy of the name has ever been instituted into their claims.' When the Home Government learn them, I venture to predict that their answer to his Excellency's application for troops will b«, that those who have been guilty, while acting in her Majesty's name of so great a wrong—who have plunged the country into such a war—are no longer worthy of her Majesty's confidence, and that instead of reinforcements her Majesty's Government will send out peremptory instructions to bring the War to a close' and to prevent any further shedding of blood in io unjust » cause. Buch being my belief, I cannot assent to this rVsolution. On the contrary I hold that it is the duty of this honii —a duty that it owes to the Imperial Government, to his Excellency(who has been grossly deceived) and especially to the whole body of colonists—to express its regret that his Excellency had felt it incumbent "upon him to have recourse to arms, and at the same time its' earnest hope that His Excellency may soon bring the war to a termination. Such a resolution; instead of weakening, wonld strengthen His Excellency's handsit would confirm the. loyal and well affected, and would allay the alarm and anxiety of the natives who are still wavering as to the part they shall take in the contest; and it would restore confidence in the justice of the British Government in the minds of those who are in arms, and would probably induce them to sue for peace on terms not dishonorable to the Government, which is nil you can hope for in a war in which yon have everything to lose and nothing to gain. But if you pass a resolution urging a vigorous prosecution of the war, which is nothing but an impotent' attempt at bullying, you will impress a belief on tho native mind that you have determined upon a war of extermination. You will force tribe after tribe to rise in revolt, and you will find put when it is too late to act, to use the expressive language of a native chief, that the fire yon have lighted in the fern will go on spreading and spreading until tha whole island is involved in one general conflagration.' Before sitting down, sir, I cannot help Raying that unless some unlooked for success be shortly achieved, the question which thin house will have to consider will be (if indeed it is liot its duty. at once to decide it) whether you are prepared to sacrifice the whole colony—or to sacrifice tbos< who have plunged us into this wretched, this miserable war. (Hear, hear). ! Messrs. Fox, Fitzherbert, Jollie, Gillies and Dr. Monro, severally spoke on the motion, the two former in opposition to the Government, and the three latter in support of the motion. Mr. Ward wished to give something more than a mere assent by vote to the resolution, in the terms of which we heartily concurred. He was exceedingly glad that the home had an opportunity at last of recording its opinion as to the justice of the present war, for the length of time over which the debatn had extended, without including any definite question upon which the sense of the house as to the war could be expressed, had, he was sure, been prejudicial in many respects. (Hear). Some hon. members early in the day expressed a sort of surprise that the present resolution had been put before the home, complaining that the Government wished to " squeeze acquiescence" iv their policy from them, and expressed a regret that the resolution was not one which everybody could Tote for. l That very condition was its great merit in his eyes. (Hear.) The question was a simple one, giving an opportunity to those who wished to say' ay,' and compelling those who weie adverse to the Government in this matter to say 4 no,' distinctly.' It waV in fact the verdict of the house on the evidence before them, and it was time that such a verdict should be given. (Hear.) Since thehouse met, suggestions of doubt as to the justnes* of the war had been thrown out by members who, together, certainly formed a small minority of the whole. A great deal of time was taken up in expressing these doubts, and then more time was granted for the endeavour to confirm them. (Hear.) He had voted against the enquiry by committee, because he wished a decision as to the conduct of the Government to bet recorded first, knowing that such a decision could not prejudice any claim of Kingi or any other man, which would in due time be properly investigated and determined, without the result in any way affecting the question now at issue. (Hear.) In all ordinary cases it 'would certainly be the duty of a majority of the house to avoid forcing the expression of an opinion until means had been taken for setting at rest any reasonable doubt* entertained by the minority from want of information. ■ But in the cuse before them, delay was so full of danger, that he believed it to he justifiable that the majority should exercise some amount of tyranny. (Oh, and hear.) The colony, both white settlers and natives, including those now engaged in the active operations of war, were of course watching for the verdict of this great tribunal. (Hear.) The doubts which had been expressed and the apparent unwillingness of the house to come to a decision, must give confidence to the insurgents, and bring dismay to those brave men fighting for their lives and homesteads at Taranaki. " Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just"; and if it were to appear uncertain whether the war is'just, the already weak hands of our soldiers would be still more paralyzed. He had no difficulty whatever in making up his mind as to the origin of' the war. The same opinion which the narrative of events, connected with the opening of. the conflict, had left upon his mind at the time as they occurred, was confirmed by the result of Archdeacon Hadfield's examination—(hear), — and still more by that of Mr. McLean, (dear.) Enquiry hud been granted upon the ground—doubtful in itself—that Kingi had asserted a claim. The nature of the claim was hot specified, but it must be one of two sorts —either a part ownership in the laud or a right as a chief to forbid the sale. The Archdeacon had not attempted to prove the former; but he made a remarkable admission on this point; he said that he had believed Kingi's rights to have been overlooked in the purchase, until he found that whatever land Kingi had a claim to, was specially reserved in the deed of cession. (Hear.) In fact, the ground on which the. oppsition stood had been cut from under their feet by finding that the purchase had been transacted iv no such blundering manner as they supposed. (Hear, hear.) Then, as to the right of chieftainship, he gathered from the Archdeai-on's evidence very plainly that Kingi had no natural status by birth as a chief of the liapu from whom the war block had been purchased. Even admitting for the sake of argument, that the Ngatiawa possessed" the niana over tho land, allowing Kingi's high position in the tribe generally, and granting that Ropoama was not the real chief of the hapu to which Teira belonged, still it was plain that Kingi was stretching his mana unwarrantably in forbidding the sale, and was assuming an authority as a chief whero he did not legitimately possess it. With no better case than this, Klngi'e claim was as trivial as it could be, and those who denied the justice of the war, because there was such a claim as this unsatisfied, had but a bad reason for their conduct. He repeated that ho was heartily glad the resolution had been brought forward, and he charged upon all tho duty of expressing their opinions whether for or against it. The Governor and his advisers must be naturally very anxious to learn the verdict of the colony on their conduct as expressed by the house; the Home Government would also without doubt be strongly influenced by it. (Hear.) The present Governor had taken a stand which no previous Governor had been bold enough to take; a stand which it was hoped would be a turning point in the system of native government generally, (pear.) It had been said by some hon. Members that the weakness, vacillation, and submissive policy of previous Government* in all native difficulties hnd fostered the feeling on the part of the natives which led to tho present war. With this view h» heartily agreed, and ho was therefore rejoiced to find that His Excellency's conduct at Waitara had been different from that of former Governors. His Excellency and his advisers had every thing to lose and nothing to gain by appealing to force; and every candid man must give them credit for having done so in furtherance of the true imprests of both races, with no meaner object in view. Thoroughly believing this to be the case, he should give his vote for the resolution with pleasure. (Hear.) Soveral other speakers followed, but no new matter being introduced, and our space being limited, we conclude our report with noticing tho result of the debate as shown by the division. Mr. CAiueton moved, and Mr. 'Benall seconded, that tha question be divided; and after some discussion on a point of order, the Speaker ruled that such a division could be made provided only immaterial words were inserted to make the two portions separate resolutions. Mr. STAFFOnD then formally moved his resolution; on which Mr. Carleton moved the amendment of which he hail given notice. Question put, " That the words proposed to bo omitted to stand part of the question." A division was taken on this question, which resulted as follows:— Ayes, 19. " , ' ] / Noes, <. "'" Mr. Carleton then moved his amendment for the division of the resolution. The division resulted thus :— Ayes, 2. Noet, 19. . Original question then put and passed in the afflrmatitt. '