EVENING SITTING.

Press, Volume XXXIX, Issue 5542, 23 June 1883, Page 5

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30. <•- Mr M. W. Green continued the debate. He argued that they were bound to look at the principles involved in this question apart altogether from party consideration, and that in ranging himself on the side of the Opposition he was doing an act his conscience could endorse to the end of his life. The excuse given for not calling Parliament together at any earlier date was lame and impotent. They should have got the tradesmen to work day and night to get the buildings ready in time. The Government had acted illegally and unconstitutionally, and deserved punishment. He feared they had very little respect for the law. Last session they had yielded to influence, and connived at the escape of a criminal who embezzled funds, and the bonds of the sureties had never been estreated. [Loud cries of " Name."] He would not give the name.

The Hon. Major Atkinson absolutely denied the truth of both statements.

Mr Geeen believed he was correct, but he would not give the name. It was a matter of history.

The Hon. Mr Bbyce said that the Government had been accused of having connived at the escape of a criminal during last session—one who had been committed for trial for embezzling Government monies. If Mr Green could make good that assertion he (Mr Bryce) would at once leave the Government; if not, he (Mr Green) would have to be under the imputation of making gross and unfounded statements without probable cause, simply because he was protected by Parliamentary privileges.

Mr Shaw said he understood Mr Green to have been alluding to the case of one Battray. He spoke from his personal knowledge when he said that the only persons who interested themselves in Battray were Mr John Sheehan and Sir Geo. Whitmore. Those gentlemen became bail for him, and their bail was estreated and had been paid. An extradition warrant for the arrest of Battray wherever found had also been issued. He had no doubt in his own mind, from the reading of the Revenues Act, that tie issuing of the money was legal, and as the issuing and the payment was one in thi« case, both were perfectly legal. Tha PaymasterGeneral simply held the money in trust for the various parties to whom it was to be paid. The police force and other servants of the colony would have remained unpaid, although the wages were earned, if this money had not been got. The placing of that money in the hands of the Paymaster was, he contended, a payment within the meaning of the Act.

Mr Steward spoke in favour of the motion, as he considered the action of the Government as illegal as unconstitutional.

Sir G. Grey said he did not at first think the Government had been guilty of the offence imputed to them, but subsequent arguments convinced him that the offence was made out. He thought the Controller, as an officer of the House, should have an opportunity of being heard at the bar of the House on subject. They had been told the paymaster was simply a trustee for the parties to whom this money was to be paid. He ventured to say that that was not the law of the case. He held the money on trust i for this Parliament, and should not have j paid the money in contravention of the law of the Parliament. No Ministry could spend money without the consent of Parliament, and to spend without the consent of Parliament was a great national crime. It was governing without a Parliament, and that was a state of things which had led to dire consequences in other countries. What the Parliament said was " You are enabled to make payments two months after the expiry of the finanofal year, but not one moment longer." Then again having violated this law it ought to nave been explained in the Governor's speech, and an Act of Indemnity asked for to condone the offence. Mr Montgomery in

bringing forward this motion did a freat duty he owed to the colony, or the Government to attempt to govern for a period of over fourteen days without Parlianientary authority, was a great offence, and ought to be resented. These were his opinions on the point, and he desired that they should be made generally known. , The House divided on the question the House go into Committee of Supply. M

j_v*___i i i<_3 Messrs Allwright f Messrs McHraith Atkinson McMillan Beetham Mitohelson Brown, J. E. Munro Bryce O'Callaghan Buchanan, Peacock W. C. I Pearson Conolly I Petrie Dick I Postlethwaite Dodson I Eolleston Fergus I Shaw Fit-Gerald f Shepherd Fulton Stevens Green, J. Sutter Hamlin Sutton Hurst Swanson Johnston,C J Thomson, H. Johnston, Trimble _W. W. Watt Kelly White, J.B. Lee Wilson, J. Levestam Wynn - WilMackenrie, I liams. F.W. I Nose—29. Messrs Barron | Messrs Hutchinson Bathgate I Ivess Bracken Joyce , Buchanan Macandrew i Cadman McKenirie, J. Danielß Montgomery Duncan Pyke Feldwick Seddon Fish Smith George Steward Green, M.W. Te Wheoro Grey Thorns on^ Harris J. W. * Holmes Tole Hursthouse White, W. committee of supply. In Committee of Supply, Mr Montgomeby asked why the building alteration had not been completed earlier ? The Hon. Mr Johnston said the contract I was for the work to be completed about the middle of April. The contractors, how- I ever, had found it utterly impossible to procure the necessary workmen. The Hon. Major Atkinson moved the following resolution—"Pursuant to the provisions of the Public Revenues Act, 1881, it is hereby resolved by the House of Representatives that the period of two months mentioned in the 9th section of the said Act, during which the Treasurer may issue and pay money in the event and on the conditions in the said section mentioned, shall'; and the same is hereby extended to a further month, and that such further month shall date and be reckoned from the expiration of the said period of two months, viz., 31st day of May last." After some discussion this was agreed to, and the House resumed, when it was also agreed to by the House and ordered to be transmitted to the Legislative Council. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS. The Hon. Major Ateinson said he had | intended to make a definite statement as ! to the business, but that intention had been interrupted by the debate. He would be prepared to make the Financial Statement on Wednesday, if members would give up that night. If not the Statement would be delivered on Friday evening, and the Estimates brought' down immediately afterwards. On the following Tuesday the Public Works Statement would be delivered, and the Public Works Estimates brought down immediately afterwards. Next week he would ask that Thursday should be given up to Government for the rest of the, session.. In that case he thought they might finish; the Government business by the end jj£ August. The principal Bills introduced or to be introduced by the Government were the Consolidation Bills, Criminal Code ; Municipal Corporation, Counties, Property, Law, Trusts and Trustees, Patents, Savingsßanks, Town Districts Government Bill, Local Courts, Bankruptcy, Married Women's Property, Sills of Exchange, Fisheries, Impounding, Tenants' Fixtures, Alienation of Land, Public Trustee, Leaseholder's Qualification, Mining Companies Act Amendment, General Assembly Expenses of Members, Legislative Officers' Salaries, Parliamentary Privileges, Prisons, Land Law Amendments, Native Land Court Amendment, Government Life Insurance, and Life Assurance Policies.

Mr Montgomery suggested that the Government should take Mondays from 7.30 for Government business instead of Thursday.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the Government looked forward to the early period when they would have to ask for Mondays also. In the meantime the business of the Cabinet was too heavy to have a sitting on that day. In reply to Mr Shepherd, Major Atkinson said the Government business on Thursdays would only come on after the local Bills were disposed of. As to private legislation members could please themselves as to prolonging the session after the Government business was all disposed of. Of late years there had been too great a tendency on the part of private members to attempt legislation on important public questions. The Government thought this ought to be checked, and the responsibility for such legislation assumed by the Government. BILLS. The Tenants' Fixtures Bill was read a second time, on the motion of the Hon. Mr Conolly. The Hon. Mr Conolly moved the second reading of the Prisons Bill. Amongst other reforms it proposed to revoke the power now possessed by the Visiting Justices of giving additional terms of imprisonment for prison offences. It also provides that all serious offences should be dealt with, not in the prison, but at the nearest B.M. Court, and even in minor offences on which the Visiting Justices could decide the case would have to be heard in the presence of the prisoner. A new feature was the introducing of a new class of ] visitors to gaols. Bespectable working men and women would be appointed, not with the powers of Visiting Justices, but with full powers to visit and make themselves acquainted with what went on in the gaols. Colonel Trimble thought this latter provision wsuld not work, as the two sets of visitors would clash. He thought the recently gazetted prison regulations altogether too severe, especially in forbidding the friends of prisoners from seeing them for long periods, and in forbidding the use of tobacco.

Mr Watt quite concurred in wlat Colonel Trimble had said. He thought] Visiting Justices should have power toj allow friends to visit. I

Mr Holmes also concurred in the remarks made. When prisoners had property the forbidding of friends to visit was a very serious matter, and he quoted instances.

Mr Fulton agreed with the previous speakers, and also gave instances. The! new rules made the Justices nonenities. ■

Mr Steward approved of the workmen visitors.

Mr Mobs pointed out that the Visiting Justices were empowered to inflict twentyfive lashes. He was sorry to see a tendency of this kind creeping into their legislation, and he suggested that the whole question of these punishments should be considered.

Mr Seddon pointed other other punishments vested in the Justices which he considered equally reprehensible. The warders should also be removed from prison to prison. The necessity for this would be shown by the results brought out in the Dunedin Prison enquiry. He also objected to the classification of gaols. It simply meant a higher rate of wages for officers in one prison than those paid in another, although the rules in both prisons were the same and required the same care and attention in the carrying of them out. Mr Joyce thought the proposal for workmen visitors would work very well, and had it been in operation he was sure the prison system of the colony would have been saved much of the scandal which had lately come to light. Mr Shepherd also reprobated the punishment of flogging, and also that of solitary confinement in dark cells. Such measures as these were calculated to drive men to madness, and render them more or less useless for the remainder of their lives.

Mr Hutchison concurred in the objections made. While recognising the Bill as a great improvement, he would like to see an element of popular election introduced in regard to Visiting Justices. Mr Jotce concurred in the objections made.

m. Bbackkn took especial exception to the clause imposing punishment for refusal to attend Divine service. A prisoner might be a Freethinker. ', Mr Dodson would not allow flogging for £ny offences except those against women pd children. Mr Feldwick was glad the return hejf had moved for last year had led to the prol duction of this Bill. He objected tfei several of the new prison regulations. Thffe Mayors of towns should, ex officio, be Visits ing Justices. f-j

Mr Daniel objectedto flogging and cells as prison punishments. {■: Sir Geobgb Gbet considered the pro-. posal of these cruel punishments was a" disgrace to the Government. He hoped Bill would be purged of them. f Mr Shaw pointed out that all thes punishments were made cumulative. Hei really doubted whether the Minister of Justice had ever read the Bill. $_j

The Hon. Mr Conolly replied. Th| Bill proposed milder punishments than _j present in force. He would quite willing*! see it modified, and flogging and dark ceill struck out. | The Bill was read a second time. i

The House rose at 12.40.