LAND COMMISSION.

SITTING AT GISBORNE.

The Land Commission held a second fitting at Gisborne this morning, commencing at 10. Captain W. H. Tucker stated he was i th-j lessee of Campbell Island, a pa.vtoral leasd,' from the Southland I«md Board. The circumstances were entirely singular, I and should be treated exceptionally. The island was 400 miles from New Zealand, and it took £250 for every trip of the steamer. When offered by tlie Land . Boui'd it was stated that the Government steamer would run every six months, but this service had been discontinued, and 18 months had elapsed between the visits, so that no dependence could be placed on the Government steamers. The Government did not spend a sixpence on : public works m the island, and the whole < cost had been borne by the speaker. Captain Tucker stated he knew of no other cases, except perlwps the Kcrnia- < decs and the 'Aueklands, wliich were m tho same category as his own. He did not ask for the freehold, but he wished that some consideration should be given for his improvement's. Probably such a case as his had nob been contemplated m the land laws, which doubtless were turned for the mainland, aud not for outlying islands. He wished to have the opportunity of obtaining one of the tenures iv existence on the mainland, lease m perpetuity, occupation with right of piirohtise or an opportunity or him to purchase the island so that he cbuld m some way protect the improvements made by him. His lease did not provide compensation for improvements, although there was something m the Act m this respect. The island had an acreage of 24,000, 'and he was running 6000 sheep. He had no safe tenure m his opinion, as he could be put off at an/ time. Mr Fleming, lessee of the Auckland Islands, had taken two loads of sheep to his leasehold, but- he found tlvat all expenses must be borne by himself, and he was not going any further. Referring to county finance, Captain Tucker stated that he '.nought that some portion of the general revenue collected by the Government should be returned to the County Councils. He Mas not m love with the Government's nethod of construction, and he considered that if a private company had undertaken the local railway they would have done thc work for two-thirds of the cost. He disapproved of the system of dual control by County Councils and Road Boardsas not- being economical. Iv regard to Government grants County Councils should not go ius supplicants to the Government, but obtain what was tlieir right. There should be no favor m these matters at all. As to Campbell Island, Captain Tucker said he would sooner pay a higher rent and be near, the mainland so that his disabilities would be removed. He would have no objection to the island being put up again to auction, loaded with his improvements. Adams Gilmour Knox, Willows estate, Matawhero, stated he held 30 acres, and his wife 20, both lease m perpetuity. He was m favor of freehold if he could, get it. He was not dissatisfied with the rent. He could not see any harm m settlers being allowed to pay off the money borrowed to purchase the land. If hard times came" it was possible the settlers would not be able to pay their rent, and the Crown would not then be m a position to pay the interest on the money borrowed. The Willows estate was cut up too small, *but at the time it was subdivided it was big enough for a number of settlers, who only had small capi- • t-al. 'A re-valuation of the holdings would not be fair or honorable. Witness would recommend an alteration iv the Act so as to modify the present stringjut law as to residence. David Shaw, Nuhaka, stated he had 1000 acres freehold, and represented the Nuhaka Fanner's Union, wlio supported the freehold. 'The country had beeii all bush, and there were np roads when the settlers went m, so that they liad a hard time. Most- of the settlers had taken their land up with a right of purchase, i but they had changed it to lease m perpetuity. Now they saw their mistake, and wished to have the freehold. The ; city dweller would be benefited by the i conversion of the land into freehold, for ■ Ukj land would pay more taxes. If city people had a turn* m the country they would appreciate the difficulties to be en. countered. '-People who were m search of ■ land fought shy of lease m perpetuity holdings. There was the difficulty o!f financing. The Government could hedge around estates with restrictions so that they could not increase too large.' To j a certain extent 'the leas© m perpetuity ] could be financed under the Advances to Settlers Act; but they could not get what they wanted. Tlie Government would not lose anything \by giving-the freehold. G. R-. Joblin, Nuhaka, holder of a lease in' perpetuity, submitted a written' statement, dealing at length with the land question. He did not think that the right to purchase the freehold would be beneficial. It would be rather the reverse. Thomas Todd, holder of S.G.R, 43a„ Waingarpmia, stated that although it was a pleasant condition at first tliat they_ had to pay no rates, it now caused friction, because they, could not rate themselves. If they wanted to improve ■ their road thoy had to go round with the hat, and if anyone refused trouble ensued.. They would sooner have the power to rate themselves; It . was also desired that they should know what their second lease would 'be. The Land Board .and Government liad treated the speaker ! well. He would like a provision m the !■ lease that six or seven years before the lease ran' out they should be abfe to know what the next lease would be, as f this would give them better security m t making improvements. If the Govern--3 nient wanted his land for close settle- . ment he would have to stand back, but . lie did think it. would be suitable. .- P. T. Kenway stated he had a, share ' with liis brothers iv 5000 acres, Waimata, > and was managing director of a yhtcp- - farming company, who held 16,000 acres. . They held one- S.G.R. of 2000 acres, and • would be quite ready to 1 be rated so they \ could do their share of the roads, but they would want the opportunity to ac- . quire the freehold or have the concession . asked for by Mr Todd. Altogether- '.there ; was a block of 25,000 acres of . S.G.R. L country, which did not pay rates, and . this made it awkward when'free'bold set. . tiers wished to raise a loan. The S.G.R. . settlers: did not 'want to escape rates, but i it was obviously unfair to other settlers. 5 Owing to the broken nature of the coun- ': try Mr Kenway did not think it was . intended to cut the S.G.R's. .m. his dis- . trict up 'into smaller areas at the exI piration of the lease, i G. .E. Darton, land agent, Gisborne, i on behalf of Crown tenants, stated he £■ had been authorised to bring forward tbe o^uf stion of rebate of rent for prompt '■ payment of rent. In Auckland and other land districts a rebate was given, but m Hawke's Bay it was not, and the Crown tenants wished that this power of-grant-ing rebate should not be left to tlve discretion of the Commissioner of Crown Lands and Receiver of Land Revenue. Many tenants thought that they should" be represented on the Land Board, as they were a party to the agreement. Some of the tenants would also like to pay off part of the capital value of tlieir lauds so as to reduce their rent., ■ Wituess objected to the granting of thc freebold, as once the freehold was obtained it could go into some large estate. Then the Laud Board would have no further say m -the matter, and the land could be worked as the owner liked. One shepherd v could look after the land, and he need not reside. Witness considered tliat , the lands of the colony would be worked more satisfactorily if they were all occupied by tenants of the Crown. He was Land Receiver at Gisbonie when the Rebate of Rent Bill was passed, but he could not explain why the Act was not carried out m tliis district. Rents were paid promptly, m this district. Witness could not possibly see m what Avay> a rebate of rent could vitiate the contract between the Government and tenant. It was simply a discount for prompt , payment of rent. - did not thiuk that the Rebate of Rent Bill was a. wise one. He did not think Crown tenants m this district- were treated; fairly m not receiving a rebate. Th* agitation -for lhe freehold was not. by the settler, but the money-lender. Ho thought the granting of a lease for 999 years at a fixed rental was good business for the Crown. J. Bulst, holder of 1000 acres, 0.R.P., Rakauroa, said he thought the Land Board should have greater discretionary, power m regard to the residence claims. He at present was living on his section at tliie Willows, and m a year he would have to live at Rakauroa. separate froni his Arife, who, as owner of the" Willows section, would have to reside there. He wisued to delay, the transfer to .his sons as long as possible, as Im> would have no control over it then after spending all his money on it. Thc place was intended for his sons, and he had bought it 'for "that purpose. It- was pointed out to Mr Bulst that lie could under the Act sub-let to his sons. ' '■•'.. A. J. Cameron, holder of a L.I.P. of 1100 acres at Matawaoa, Waiapu, said he wanted to advocate a right of purchase. There was the fear of revaluation, and holders of such leases found difficulty m financing. He had asked one financial man wliat he thought of a L.I.P. 1 security, and he said : "We wouldn't touch it with v 40fl pole." Wittiesa' section was 100 miles from Gisborne. and he found it too small, and as the settlers had to send their sheep down m mixed lots losses were often made. He was satisfied with the administration of the \ Land Board. Tlie Board had never been ; liarsli to him, and but for the east-iron j law the Board would, be better aole to transact the land business with better ! results to the settlers and country. The } land was not the people's heritage; it J belonged, to those wlio could work it and . take 'food out of it. The giving of the * freehold would be of advantage to the !

colony at large. Witness had a place left to him by a brother, and he could not make his home on his L.1.P., and he considered the time and expense incurred m going to and from to his property would be better spent on the land. Seven or eight settlers who had S.G.R. were m greut trouble tlirough not being able to rate themselves for roads. William Lissant Clayton, secretary of the P.B. Farmers' Union, stated he had been asked to appear to support the freehold tenure, lhe main point that the Union wished to emphasise was that the L.I.P. holders should be enabled to acquire th© freehold if they thought it necessary. They thought it was unfair that the O.R.P. man for instance could change his lease, while the L.I.P. holder, if he thought that the process m which ho had taken up land did not work well, was not allowed to change to the freehold.. The Union considered it Avas only right tliat a man who took up land should be entitled to have the opportunity of acquiring the freehold if possible. Tlie L.I.P. was- m the best interests of the State. Settlers who were converting the Avilderness into a productive state Avere benefiting thc colony. Leaseholders were entitled to the freehold provided the State's cost Avere paid. If the settlers did not agitate for the freehold and make their views concerning any proposed revaluation khoVn it might be said afterwards that they did not *object. W M. T. Trafford, holder. of '«, S.Giiytn Hangaroa district, stated ,. thai sever(jil of the settlers holding S.G.R's.j iir-dijrdis-trict were unable to, obtaiu loads, as they could riot rate them»f|Jk.'Gwing to the conditions 1 under w&HAtliey held their runs. It was desirflrWl&^cet thc power to rate themselves so UmPSoans could be raised for the purpose of nr*^ink rdads. i^_ Tliis concluded the sitting, and >X Commission leave for Wellington to-mcH row. *' -._■