FRUIT BARROWS.

LICENSES TO BE ISSUED A LENGTHY DISCUSSION. "The Committee has given careful consideration to the question of granting permits for barrows to be placed in certain positions in the streets of the City for the sale of fruit and vegetables, and recommends the Council to grant permits for this to bo done subject to conditions to be laid down by the Comniitte."

The above recommendation, which was made to the City Council last night by the By-laws Committee, provoked considerable discussion. The debate was followed with close interest by the public gallery, from which quarter there were many interjections, which were only stopped by the Mayor, when he threatened to close future meetings to the public unless order was maintained. The matter occupied the attention of the Council for two hours.

The Mayor (Mr J. lv. Archer) had received a request from fruiterers to bo allowed to send a deputation to the meeting regarding fruit barrow licenses.

It was decided to receive the deputation.

The Mayor reported that he had received a letter than morning from Mrs Helen Lambcrton, stating that she understood the question of fruit barrows was to be brought up at the meeting and that if the barrows were allowed on the streets, the public would gain nothing as regards fruit prices, whilo her business would bo affected to the extent that she would not bo ablo to pay her rates, amounting to over £6O. She also stated that there were too many shops now selling fruit. Case for Ketailers. Mr L. A. Goldsmith, on behalf of the Christchurch Retail Fruiterers, said he had gone into the question, and had come to the conclusion that no matter how tho fruit was sold it all came from the markets. If there wero more barrows on tho streets it would only cause keener competition in the auction rooms. With regard to cmplaints concerning prices, he would state that there was only one month in the year when tomatoes were at a glut price. He maintained that while the penny a pound tomatoes were satisfactory when they got to the auction rooms they were not first grade when they reached the shops. Many of them, in fact, were only fit for sauce. He wondered if it would be possible to protect the fruit and vegetables from germs in the streets if they were sold in barrows. Fruiterers were not allowed to expose their fruit outside. It should be remembered, too, that some fruitersr paid as much as £lO per week for rent. He maintained that these people wero entitled to consideration in view of the rates they paid. He also drew attention to the practice adopted by auctioneers of using fictitious people to keep up prices. Tn answer to a question Mr Goldsmith said the public wero ablo to enter an auction room and purchase one peck rff peas and one box of tomatoes in competition with fruiterers. At least this was the case at a recent date, and he thought it was still so. Charge Against Auctioneers. The Mayor said neither vendors nor auctioneers had any right to fix a prico for fruit when put up for auction. This was the law, and it was about time that the auctioneers were made aware of the position. He had himself seen auctioneers refuse to accept a price from a bidder if they considered it too low. Cr. M. E. Lyons: Not if it is ridiculous.

The Mayor quoted from the Act to show that no auctioneer had the right t ac in such a way. It was, ho said, a custom in various parts of the Dominion to violate the law in this connexion. The public should go along to auction rooms with cash and demand their rights.

Or.. J. W. Beanland asked if it was not a fact that the trouble had arisen because the auctioneers refused to handle the produce of one grower.

The Mayor said that what he was concerned about was the breaking of the law by the auctioneers, as ho had Indicated. For the Barrow-men. The president of the Tomato and Stone Fruit Growers' Association (Mr C. E. Pope) said that while high prices were obtaining, the shopkeepers left fruit piled in their shops, and sat back waiting for the well-to-do customer to come along and buy. The working man had no chance of purchasing at such prices, and it was for this reason permission was asked to have barrow,-men. Their fruit would always be cheap, and would help to control shop prices. The fruiterers also, on occasion, reduced the quantity of strawberries in a box after they had been purchased from the auction rooms. In the market, he alleged, the tactics adopted by the auctioneers and fruiterers were not always fair. As to the barrows being sanitary, they would be glassed in as the Health Regulations required. Barrow-vendors existed in almost every other country in the world, and in London alone were to he found 40,000 fruit barrow-men.

Cr. R. M. Macfarlane asked how long Mr Pope had been in the fruit-growing business.

Mr Pope replied since 1913. In reply to Cr. Beanland lie said he would be prepared to keep his barrows i.i the street all the year, if licensed. Cr. Carr said he did not know how this matter, had come before the Bylaws Committee. A sub-committee had been formed to consider various questions of municipal marketing of fish and f.uit. He moved as an amendment that the present application should be referred to the Tlefcrves and Market Committee, ani considered by the subcommittee set up.

A Noisy "Gallery." "I don't wish to appear offensive," said Cr. Carr, "but it seems to me the By-Laws Committee want to run the Council. (Hear, hear.) What is the use of having Town Planning and Market Committees if the By-Laws Committee wants to swallow everything. Three Councillors rose to speak, but were called to order by the Mayor. The Mayor said the By-Laws Committee had no wish to usurp the duties of any other committee. It was the only committee, however, that could issue licenses and the application to license barrows had naturally come before them, and they had had to act. Cr. Beanland said the matter had been ventilated a great deal, and various deputations had been received bv the By-Laws Committee. It had gone to such a stage that he thought the By-Laws Committee should finish the work. Cr. M. E. Lyons expressed the opinion that the Council should come to a decision against barrow licensing, and protect the fruiterer. Cr. G. Manning said it was no surprise to him to find Cr. Lyons supporting an institution where the three parties had accused themselves of defrauding the public. The Mayor was forced to call the "gallery" to order.

. The Council was hero to support tho interests of the public, said Cr. Manning, and if the public were being misled by the fruit parties, then they should bo protected by tho Council. They had laid bare the workings of private enterprise, and if barrows would eliminate the underhand practices they should be licensed. Cr. A. E. Herbert said she considered it was contemptible for tho Council to take up such an attitude, and she was surprised at Cr. Manning as a Labour member, taking up an attitude that would deprive his own workers of a living in their fruit shops. In Wellington and other towns the barrows wore run exclusively by Chinese and Hindus, which was undesirable.

The Mayor again addressed the "gallery," and said that if tho listeners could not remain silent the Council would be forced to closo its meetings to tho public. Cr. R. M. Macfarlane said ho was sorry that the Market Sub-Committee had not brought forward a report on a municipal fruit market. Referring to Cr. Herbert's remarks as to Chineso and Hindu vendors, Cr. Macfarlane waxed oratorical, and amid3t frequent interruptions quoted the Biblo as stating that God made all people to bo equal on tho face of the earth. Two Injustices. Cr. A. W. Beaven said that if one man was granted a license thero was no reason why other licenses should not also be granted. It seemed to him that the Council was in great danger of committing two gravo injustices. The first was tho danger of taking away t 3 living from citizens already in business, and the second was that of allowing barrow-men to escape the pnyment of rates. Besides this, to allow barr sto be placed on the- streets would cause tho thoroughfares to bo narrowed. Cr. E. R. McCombs said tho Committee had recommended the granting of a barrow license to ono man, because it considered that lie was being boycotted. She hoped that tho matter would not bo decided at tho present meeting, but that an opportunity should bo given Cr. G. R. Hunter to return with certain information he possessed. Cr. E. H. Andrews said he would oppose both the motion and the amendment. It was clear to him that the By-laws Committee did not know its own mind. There was little business being dono becauso various committees thought they should wait for certain councillors to return. Ho could not agreo to tho By-laws Committee being allowed to draw up conditions, because ho could not trust it. He considered that to be consistent thero should be barrows for meat, fish, coal, and other commodities. He thought that Mr Pope's case was moro ono of sour grapes than sweet strawberries. He did not want to see Christchurch become like London in regard to barrows. He could recognise tho rights of man, the same as the Labourites, but lot tho Hindu and Chinamen pay rents like ordinary shopkeepers. Tho Labour Party was out for one purpose. / Cr. Carr: Listen! "It is here to preach tho doctrine or Socialism," said Cr. Andrews. The matter was purely ono for tho Markets Committee, but if he supported tho amendment it would only prolong the agony. ■ . .. The Mayor: You can vote against it. Cr. Andrews: Too right I will both of them. "Whitebait and Vegetables." Cr. J. W. Roberta supported the motion.' The By-Laws Committoe had brought down a definite statement, and he was prepared to support them. If barrows were allowed for fruit, then they would be doing no moro than those selling whitebait and vegetables m the suburbs now. Cr. P. W. Sharpe supported the motion on the grounds that the auctioneers had made it necessary. It was a pity there was no .municipal fruit market. Cr. T. N. Butterfield believed that the barrow would be better from tho health point of view than many fruit shops where the fruit was allowed to lie and go bad. Cr. Carr rose to speak. The Mayor: Cr. Carr, the record on the minutes shows that you spoke for five minutes on the amendment. Cr. Andrews: 3YA again! Tho Mayor said the Council cou'.d not settle the question on the fact that one man had been boycotted. It wnß not a qur-shon of one man, but a question of barrows on the streetß. If they were to have a municipal market then they would not need barrows, but otherwise these could serve a good purpose. Replying to charges of vacillation on the part of the By-Laws Committee, tho Mayor said they realised they had mado a mistake, and had therefore done the right thing in reversing their views. "Though I'm a parson, I'm not a wowser as you know," said the Mayor, referring to the Hindu and Chinese question. "That question of colour has been ably dealt with by Cr. Macfarlane in a magnificent speech, but I was surprised to find Councillors smiling at the Biblo being quoted in a supposedly Christian city in a Christian Empire. If we can't justify our conduct by the Bible we have no right to existence. If our civilisation is not based on the Bible the sooner it is destroyed the better."

Referring to a remark made earlier by Cr. Lyons that he purchased his fruit at the auction rooms, the Mayor said Cr. Lyons was a champion of the fruiterer, yet, if all were liko him the fruiterers would be driven out of business.

«' Contemptible Association.''

Cr. Andrews, a member of that "contemptible Citizens' Association," the Mayor continued, did not know the meaning of Socialism. The Citizens' Association members had a "group consciousness" only, while the Labour members had a "civic consciousness.' Cr. Lyons: Mostly a Party conscious"This little coterie of 130 or 131 members—" said the Mayor, calling laughter from the Citizens' Association councillors. "Well, then, tell me-the number of members, and I'll quote it." Cr. Beanland: I don't know.

The Mayor: No, and neither does anybody else. It's what I've been trying to find out. "This coterie," he continued, "is supposed to be working in tho interests of the citizens, but they say there is onlv one man to vote for as Mayor, only one list as councillors, and only one man for the Hospital Board—the one they nominate." Cr. Lyons: What about the L.R.C.f The Mayor: No, we say to the citizens, "Choose your own people." Cr. Andrews: Is this matter relevant to the discussion?

The Mayor: Every point I have touched on is from your speeches during the discussion.

Some councillors, he said, had a very extraordinary idea of the intelligence of the citizens of Cliristchurch. They thought that if they threw enough dust in the citizens' eyes they would do as they were told. The question as to fruit marketing had to bo settled primarily for the good of all tho citizens, and for this reason he urged councillors to support the amendment to refer the question to the sub-committee of the Reserves and Market Committee.

The amendment was lost by 10 votes to three, as follows: — Noes —Crs. Butterfield, Macfarlane, Roberts, Manning, Sharpe, Andrews, Lyons, Bcaven, Herbert, and Beanland. Ayes—Crs. McCombs, Carr, and the Mayor.